In this two-part conversation, Fatouma Ahmed reflects on Canadian Islamic Heritage Month and shares the personal and professional journey that has shaped her path in public service. She reflects on growing up as a Black Muslim woman in Canada, the role of community and early influences in guiding her commitment to service, and how her lived experiences continue to ground her leadership and sense of purpose. Fatouma speaks candidly about resilience, authenticity, and the importance of representation in creating spaces of belonging. She shares lessons from navigating challenges in the public sector, the value of showing up fully in every space, and how identity and lived experience shape the way she approaches leadership and service. She also explores what it means to lead with integrity and responsibility, highlighting the power of allyship, the necessity of accessibility in both design and service delivery, and the ripple effect that comes from lifting others. Her reflections offer a compelling vision of leadership that is inclusive, accountable, and deeply rooted in faith, equity, and care for community.
In Part 1, Fatouma Ahmed reflects on the personal and professional journey that led her into public service. She recalls childhood memories of accompanying her family to immigration offices, as these moments gave her an early glimpse of how government decisions directly impact people’s lives. Fatouma speaks too about growing up as a Black Muslim woman in Canada, the role of community and early influences in shaping her commitment to service, and how she came to understand the humanity that lies at the heart of policy work. Fatouma also shares lessons in resilience and authenticity, and why representation matters in creating spaces of belonging.
(00:03:52) Childhood Memories: Visiting the Immigration Office
(00:04:36) Mother’s Influence: Strength, Sacrifice, and Inspiration
(00:09:01) Growing Up in Canada: Family, Community, and Early Responsibility
(00:11:04) First Jobs in Government: Learning Humility and Navigating Early Roles
(00:14:13) Experiences on the Immigration Refugee Board
(00:19:26) Giving Back: Teaching Kids the Value of Service
[00:00:00] Katie Jensen: Applaud is proud to showcase the dedication of those who make decisions for the greater good and strive to leave the world a better place, for all Canadians. All personal views expressed by guests and our hosts are their own. Applaud will continue to recognize those in public service, offer a kaleidoscope of perspectives and operate in good faith to build trust with Applaud members and all public citizens.
[00:00:30] Fatouma Ahmed: I remember being very young going to the immigration office at 25 St. Clair in Toronto with my mother. And I remember looking at this building and I mean now it doesn't look as big, but I remember being this young child and looking up at this building and thinking this is a huge building, and seeing the people coming in and out of the building with their badges and realizing that these people were going to decide my fate. Sure enough, years later, I was working in that very building.
[00:01:03] Katie Jensen: I am Katie Jensen, and this is the Path of Public Service from Applaud, celebrating people who have spent their lives working in Ontario's public sector. Today we're talking with Fatouma Ahmed.
[00:01:16] Fatouma Ahmed: So my name is Fatouma Ahmed. I serve as the Director of Program Services within the Business Innovation and Community Development branch at the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario. I am also a mother of four amazing kids, a wife to an amazing and very supportive husband, a daughter to incredible parents, a sister, a friend, a niece, and a community activist.
[00:01:44] Katie Jensen: Like so many within the OPS, giving back to community plays a big part in her life
[00:01:50] Fatouma Ahmed: This year. I think for us and my children, it's been about giving back to the community. When I watch the news, it's really hard for us to see what's happening around the world and not be in a position to really make significant change. So we decided to ground ourselves in what we've got control over and giving back to the community in the way that we know best. So my children have started volunteering with the Muslim Welfare Center and we give packaged food to people in need. And really this is an opportunity for me to ensure that I'm shaping my kids around being a service to others and giving back to the community.
[00:02:32] Katie Jensen: Because growing up, Fatouma’s family had to rely on community.
[00:02:36] Fatouma Ahmed: When I think about my journey here in Canada, I mean, I immigrated to Canada at the age of seven, right? The eldest of five. My mother worked double shifts to keep us afloat and kind of stepped into that caregiver role very early on. So I know what it means to grow up and not have a lot and depend on the community. So I think for me it is a full circle moment in terms of now that I'm in the space that I'm in, to be able to give back to the community the way my family was provided for.
[00:03:11] Katie Jensen: This month, October marks Islamic Heritage Month, a time for us to celebrate, recognize and honor the contributions of our Muslim friends, neighbors, and colleagues.
[00:03:23] Fatouma Ahmed: As we mark Islamic Heritage Month. For me, I'm reminded that public service isn't just a profession. I think for many of us, especially those who come from equity deserving groups or communities, it really is a calling. It is a way for us to reclaim our spaces to ensure that our values, our voices, and our experiences are reflected in the systems that are shaping our country.
[00:03:52] Katie Jensen: Right off the top, we heard Fatouma describe how it felt to be that little girl looking way up at the imposing mirrored glass, behind which were the government staff that would decide her family's fate. She knew where she wanted to work light years before the rest of us. But although she could see this middle passage on the path of public service, it would take baby steps, sometimes unglamorous ones to get started.
[00:04:15] Fatouma Ahmed: We took all of the maintenance calls for government employees, whether it's related to the temperature or it issues with toilet clogs. So it wasn't always fancy, but it definitely added humility, to my experience in government,
[00:04:32] Katie Jensen: We started by diving deeper into those early memories of arriving in Canada.
[00:04:36] Fatouma Ahmed: I came here when I was seven and my mother, you know, a single mother really had to work double shifts to keep us afloat. I became a caregiver very early for my younger siblings and for me, that experience growing up in a household full of both strength, right, seeing my mother come into this country where there was a language barrier. I mean, we spoke French, but there was still cultural shock. Yet she persevered and was working two different jobs. To make sure that we had a roof over our head. And that kind of brought in, you know, the survival piece where we were just sort of living day by day, but. I think the fact that we were surrounded by community and family and love was really enough for us to continue going, but that also shaped the way that I lead today with empathy and an unwavering commitment to equity. And I remember being very young going to the immigration office at 25 St. Clair in Toronto with my mother.
[00:05:37] Fatouma Ahmed: And I remember looking at this building and I mean now it doesn't look as big, but I remember being this young child and looking up at this building and thinking this is a huge building, and seeing the people coming in and out of the building with their badges and their security access and realizing that these people were going to decide my fate and they held so much power. And I think that alone for me was that aha moment of like. This is what I wanna do. And I remember telling my mother, mom, one day I'm going to be like these people. And sure enough, years later I was, I was working in that very building.
[00:06:15] Katie Jensen: Was she excited that you had direction so early on?
[00:06:20] Fatouma Ahmed: She did. I was always driven. I always knew that I wanted to make an impact. I always knew that I wanted to contribute back to my community and really make her proud for the sacrifices that she had made in her life. I mean, this is a woman who I admire so much who possesses strength, who's incredibly smart, but who's also had to sacrifice a lot in her life.
[00:06:42] And I know, and we always joke around that my mother could have become a professor if she wanted to, but she opted for, you know, working in factories and then later became a PSW just to make ends meet so that she had enough to. Give us the life that we deserved. So for me, I think this is really an honor of my mother as well in terms of my path and my direction, and my success for me is almost her success.
[00:07:09] Katie Jensen: Yeah. And I also have huge respect for PSW is 'cause they have the hardest jobs, I think in healthcare, like the physically hardest jobs because it requires like huge muscle to be able to lift people, turn them so they don't get bed sores, help them in and out of bed, help them when they fallen. That's wild to me that your mom was one.
[00:07:27] Fatouma Ahmed: That’s it. And you know, I think one of the things that we don't talk often about when it comes to PWS is you're also dealing with elderly people who grew up in a very different reality than us. They're often dealing with dementia, they're not themselves, and as a result, I think the PWS and some of the experiences that my mother would tell me after her shifts would really aggravate me. People that she worked for would call her the N word and would really use derogatory terms towards her. And I remember being very, very upset when she would tell us the stories and you know, she would always remind us that you can't judge people at their worst, and that it's not a definition of who we are as people.
[00:08:10] So I think it's important for me to understand that the world around me or the way that I'm perceived is not who I am and really making sure that I can define a path for myself and really know who I am at the core so that I don't get bothered and I don't let other people's perceptions, insecurities define who I am. So that was an early lesson for me that I learned from my mother in her role as a PSW.
[00:08:36] Katie Jensen: I mean, it's unfortunate she had to be so steely, but also incredibly admirable that she was. Just letting it roll off her, because I know a lot of people would've been like cursing, maybe even abusing people who, you know didn't have their faculties. But it's incredible that she was like, you know, I'm gonna do my job regardless, because they're not aware of what they're saying. Exactly. So how old were you when you made that decision? You were in high school?
[00:09:01] Fatouma Ahmed: Actually, I was in elementary school. I was really, really young. I would say about eight or nine. Like I said, I've been already taking care of my siblings. I knew what it meant to be of service, and I think for me it was really, really important to continue that. And you know, this episode is going to air on Islamic Heritage Month. So as we mark Islamic Heritage Month, for me, I'm reminded that public service isn't just a profession. I think for many of us, especially those who come from equity deserving groups or communities, it really is a calling. It's a way for us to reclaim our spaces to ensure that our values, our voices, and our experiences are reflected in the systems that are shaping our country.
[00:09:46] Katie Jensen: So at what point in high school did you decide to go to York and why did you wanna stay close to home? Was it 'cause they have a great international relations program.
[00:09:55] Fatouma Ahmed: So here's the thing, you're absolutely right. I think I've always had a dream of working in international development. I decided to go to Glendon, which is the French campus of York University because it was extremely important for me to preserve the French language and really making sure that I continued my studies in French. I did all of my studies, I think, with the exception of my master's in French. So I was very fortunate to not only find a campus close to home, but I was able to do what I loved, which was international studies. And as I was taking courses, I found this love for sociology as well and really looking at how societies are shaped, who makes the decisions and who was left out.
[00:10:38] Fatouma Ahmed: So those sort of early years in university really shaped my thinking around equity and really making sure that we are creating inclusive spaces. So I did a double major in international studies in sociology as well as a certificate in law and social thought and bilingual excellence. And I started working for the government right after graduation.
[00:11:01] Katie Jensen: Yes you did!
[00:11:02] Fatouma Ahmed: Yes!
[00:11:03] Katie Jensen: Tell me about that first job.
[00:11:04] Fatouma Ahmed: So my first job right out of university was actually quite interesting. My peers at the time we had all graduated, very excited for the world, and as you can imagine, after four years of university, you know, a lot of them wanted to get into policy. They had a vision for the type of jobs they wanted outside of university, so a lot of them were applying to policy roles, advisor roles that really aligned with our degrees. Meanwhile, I looked in government and saw that they were hiring for a call center position with the National Service Call Center. It's now Public Service Procurement Canada, and this was, they were looking for bilingual people who had customer service experience, which I had both. I knew that it would be an easy entry into Government, and they were looking to hire permanently, and for me that was more important than securing sort of the job or the title that I wanted because I knew the weight that I was carrying.
[00:12:00] This was an opportunity for me to provide for my family to alleviate some of the pressures that my mother was feeling as a single mother and you know, having to support all the kids. This would also mean healthcare. So really for me, I was very practical in thinking about my first job, and I'm really happy that I did, you know, this call center, we took all of the maintenance calls for Government employees, whether it's related to the temperature or issues with toilet clogs. So it wasn't always fancy, but it definitely added humility to my experience in government.
[00:12:35] But really I think, fostered a deep understanding of different Government departments 'cause we had, you know, all of the Government of Canada calling and I got an opportunity to kind of see the different jobs and the different titles within Government and use those opportunities to connect and engage with the folks that were calling to learn a little bit more about sort of what they do. So very interesting and an amazing learning experience for me.
[00:12:59] And then shortly after that, I started my career at IRCC. And this was interesting because as you know, that's where my journey in Canada began and I was returning to the systems that had once shaped my life and working there was surreal for both my mother and I, given, you know, sort of my early years and the conversations that I had with my mom.
[00:13:19] And in this role, I was reading refugee applications before they went to the Immigration Refugee Board. And in reading their stories, it sounded a lot like my mother's story. The same fears that I had heard my mom sort of talk about over the years. The same hopes, dreams. But what struck out to me as I was reading this is it was missing humanity. We were looking at file numbers and I think oftentimes we forget the people and the faces behind these files. We’re concerned with giving them status or validating, you know, their applications to make sure that there is no issues of credibility and that they are who they say they are, which is really great. But I think for me it was really important about giving them dignity at the same time and really making sure not to forget that behind every file was a face and really making sure that people are at the center of all of the work that I was doing.
[00:14:12] Katie Jensen: Did your job involve doing interviews with them, just to verify details?
[00:14:13] Fatouma Ahmed: So not interviews per se, but I would be at the Immigration Refugee Board where they were presenting, especially when there were issues of credibility or something did not align in their applications, and this would be an opportunity for us to be able to present the evidence, so in being in that position as well I remember very vividly this family, this Muslim woman with a hijab who probably was from East Africa, I believe, came in and had this smile on her face as she saw me, because there was someone who looked like her. I was the only person of color with a hijab in the room, and it broke my heart. Because my intention in that capacity wasn't to support her case, but to really present evidence that would contradict the story that she had presented.
[00:15:02] So in many ways it was a difficult job for me to say the least. It's an important role to have to really make sure that the people that are coming into this country say who they say they are, that we protect the integrity of the program. But when we talk about refugees and their stories, it's not so black and white. And I think it's a matter of adding the humility and really looking at the stories that we're being told and really making sure that we are assessing and that we are determining these decisions based on the stories that we're hearing and not basing it on preconceived notion or biases that we have.
[00:15:43] Katie Jensen: What did you do next?
[00:15:44] Fatouma Ahmed: So, I continued my public service career working on national security and public safety. Here I supported programs that focused on crime prevention, emergency management, critical infrastructure, cybersecurity. And they were heavy files to deal with, but they were also deeply personal for me.
[00:16:04] So I grew up in subsidized housing. As I said, I was raised by a single mother, with my siblings, and I saw firsthand how people who lived in the same environment could produce very different outcomes. So kids who shared my upbringing, same parenting style, same values, we sometimes went to the same schools, we faced the same challenges and barriers ended up in very different paths, and sometimes those were shaped by systemic neglect, criminalization, and limited opportunity.
[00:16:39] And for me, that experience grounded me in one truth, that public safety begins with prevention. It begins with trust and really making sure that community groups trust the government, that we create inclusive programs and policies and that we invest to address what some of the root causes. I think sometimes we talk about sort of the impact and sort of the aftermath. But tackling the underlying social, economic and environmental factors that contribute to some of the criminal behaviors are investments that we should be making. Hence beginning with prevention.
[00:17:17] Katie Jensen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think programs can really make a difference. And also allowing people to get good news stories that then make the case for programs to continue expand that sort of thing later on.
[00:17:27] Fatouma Ahmed: Absolutely. So, you know, moving on to the National Security part of the work that I did, too often National Security policies unintentionally deepen the stigma by ignoring the structural roots of violence, whether we're talking about discrimination, social exclusion, or a lack of opportunities. In my career at public safety, I was asked to support the National Consultation on the Strategy for Countering Radicalization.
[00:17:56] It's a heavy file, as you can imagine. There's a lot of stigma associated with it, and quite frankly, people in the community, especially the Muslim community, wanted no part of this work. They did not wanna be associated with it for fear of the perception. Right, the negative stigma that has been going on.
[00:18:14] So for me, it was really important to leverage the networks that I had built to bring those authentic voices into the policy conversation. So I engage smaller groups in the community, in the mosque to come together and really engage and talk to us about their experiences are, and when we talk about a strategy to countering radicalization, what recommendations do they have and how do they wanna see themselves reflected in this strategy?
[00:18:41] And it was really a matter of listening deeply to what was being said, but also what wasn't. And through trust and I think the intentional engagement, we were able to shift the narrative from one that polices these communities to one that brings them in the fold of the conversation. It was really great to see their insights were incorporated into the strategy and we really ensured that the local communities and those frontline actors were seen as partners and not just stakeholders, and that we were able to develop a more responsive and human-centered approach to the policy that we were developing.
[00:19:19] Katie Jensen: I'm curious about what the community suggestions were for tackling radicalization, what we know works on a larger scale.
[00:19:26] Fatouma Ahmed: So I think part of that really goes back to some of the elements that I had mentioned early on around prevention. Right? I think we often talk about the policing part, but focusing on the prevention was one that came up in the conversations that we had. Trying to approach this from a community led perspective. Building trust, resilient and social cohesion was really center to some of the feedback that we were getting. Making sure that the partnerships that we create are more holistic and include mental health professionals, educators, faith leaders, researchers, and families. That wraparound support was instrumental in really addressing some of the issues that we were dealing with.
[00:20:12] And then making sure that they were tailored and inclusive, really recognizing those intersectionalities that I think we often forget, making sure that some of the programs that we're developing are culturally competent, they're trauma informed, and avoid stigmatizing communities, and they're based on evidence, research and trying to take away some of the biases, as I've said in the beginning, and those preconceived notions about who a community is and really making sure that they're based on evidence, really making sure that we can support digital literacy and countering narratives to reduce the appeal of violent ideologies. Were some of the feedback that we got from the community, which really resonated and I think also appear in the strategy.
[00:20:56] Katie Jensen: Digital literacy is something that I think a lot of people may not be as familiar with, but is very important. Can you break down what that is on a fundamental level?
[00:21:07] Fatouma Ahmed: Yeah. I mean, the world is shifting to become more digital and I think older generations may be more than anything else, are not as versed on how to use the internet, whether we're finding information or even misinformation sometimes, actually. But I think digital literacy is really this ability to effectively use the internet to gain knowledge and have information that exists and be able to engage, I think, with the digital world as well. So there's an opportunity there for us to make sure that the information that exists digitally is accurate.
[00:21:44] It's based on facts and I think sometimes the misinformation is what drives people to certain ideologies or certain fears of certain communities. So it's really making sure for us, that we're using digital platforms responsibly and that we're using sources and information that are fact based and not opinion based.
[00:22:06] Katie Jensen: And I suppose it's also helpful to work with faith leaders who themselves may need. Some help in navigating stuff that's changing all the time. Because I would assume faith leaders' jobs are not primarily digital ones, but more analog.
[00:22:20] Fatouma Ahmed: That's it. You know, I think they're learning. I think they're, adjusting and evolving with time to make sure that they can keep up with the newer generations. But to your point, absolutely. Making sure that our elders, our leaders are also well versed in digital spaces and they know how to use the internet is quite important. And I know in the Muslim community, really there is a lot more content available now for youth that are interested in learning about the faith and learning about, you know, our communities and so forth. So I think the internet can be a very powerful space if we use it responsibly.
[00:22:29] Katie Jensen: Is it true that your time in this job also overlapped a bit with COVID?
[00:23:02] Fatouma Ahmed: Yeah, so you know, that was an interesting time for us because I was home with my family and we heard about COVID, but I think like many other people, we didn't really understand the impact of COVID. But being in this space and being a Government employee and providing services and programs to Canadians, it was really important for us to make sure that we can be there in. The moment of need for Canadians and make sure that there is continuation in the services that we provide and that we are there to be of service to people. But on the other hand, to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves, our mental health, and our families, because that moment of uncertainty was really one that I think rattled a lot of people and kind of centers what's really important, which is family at the core of everything.
[00:23:56] Katie Jensen: The reason I asked is because I'm also curious about what it was like visiting mosques when a lot of denominations ended up taking their services online, so calls to prayer, mass, all of that thing. A lot of people had a crash course in how to use the internet during COVID.
[00:24:10] Fatouma Ahmed: That's it. Exactly. I mean, we weren't, we couldn't go to the mosque. There was really a disconnect from our day-to-day lives. We really had to adapt. And adjust our way of living to make sure that we were protecting ourselves, we were protecting Canadians, and we were respecting the rules around isolation. And, you know, seven, seven meters the distance. So. It was a very, very interesting time. But to your point, this is when the internet became even more powerful because now you've got another space to connect spiritually with your community and listen to lectures and really reflect on what this moment means and how do we use it in a way where you can ground yourself and connect back with your faith and your community and your family.
[00:25:00] Katie Jensen: Beautiful. Yeah. I think grounding oneself was crucial for survival at that time.
[00:25:05] Fatouma Ahmed: Absolutely. I think for me, by doing this work as a black, visibly Muslim woman in Government, it comes with a particular weight. And I remember vividly the murder of the Afzaal family in London, Ontario, and this was a family that was, you know, taking a stroll down the street and were murdered by a truck driver.
[00:25:30] And for me, this was the heartbreaking reminder of how deeply anti-Muslim hate runs in the world. And as a mother, I remember the fear of how do I protect my children? How do I explain to them that their safety is not always guaranteed on one hand. I worked in government to make sure that I can bring these voices to the table and we can make sure that they're inclusive spaces, inclusive programs, inclusive policies. But on the other hand, on a personal front, there was still a lot of uncertainties around our safety. And for me, I remember that moment forced me to confront the reality that I had spent years compartmentalizing that you leave your identity at the door. And I think for a lot of us that come from equity deserving groups, we come into the workplace and really leave who we are at the door.
[00:26:27] And you're there to do a job. And at first when I started in Government, you're told to tone down parts of your identity, right? You kind of leave your blackness at the door. You're less bold, you're less visible. Then after George Floyd's murder, there's this sudden willingness to now hear our stories. We were told to bring our full selves to work.
[00:26:52] We had meetings where people wanted to hear about our lived experience and what we had gone through, and how do we change the system so that we can be included and for me, while one part of my identity was sort of at the forefront and I was, they were creating spaces for me to be more of myself, my Muslim identity I didn't feel was as welcomed or was as front and center as my black identity.
[00:27:21] And what those sort of moments for me showed me is our workplaces have to create these opportunities for us to bring our full selves to the workplace. That we really need systems that acknowledge the intersectionality, that we carry more than one lived experience. And each one of those identities inform how we show up. And, you know, it makes me think of the Dr. Zeller's report on the experiences of black executives, which really confirmed for me very early on in my executive career, what many of us already know, that black leaders are held to different standards. We're made to feel that our leadership must be flawless, to be seen as credible, and are often left without that psychological safety that, you know, development requires. So for me, in these spaces, it's really been about creating those opportunities for me to bring my full self to work and making sure that those intersectional lens of my identity are present and they inform all of the work that I do. God has been an interesting journey for me.
[00:28:27] Katie Jensen: This has been part one of our conversation with Fatouma Ahmed. In part two, we hear more about allyship and inclusion:
[00:28:55] Fatouma Ahmed: When we design for the most vulnerable communities, we're really designing for everyone.
[00:29:02] Katie Jensen: Community empowerment:
[00:29:03] Fatouma Ahmed: It was really important for me to go back into the community and organize youth leadership initiatives that really fostered positive relationships, replacing some of the tension and the isolation that these communities were feeling with collaboration, belongingness and just hope and the possibility that things could be different
[00:29:23] Katie Jensen: Leadership:
[00:29:24] Fatouma Ahmed: I think I've finally made peace with my voice and now I use it to lift others.
[00:29:30] Katie Jensen: And faith:
[00:29:31] Fatouma Ahmed: Islam teaches us that leadership isn't Amanah, a trust. It's not about power, but responsibility. That principle has guided every step of my journey.
[00:29:41] Katie Jensen: Thanks for listening. Applaud is proud to showcase the dedication of those who make decisions for the greater good and strive to leave the world a better place for all Canadians. All personal views expressed by guests and our hosts are their own Applaud, will continue to recognize those in public service, offer a kaleidoscope of perspectives and operate in good faith to build trust with Applaud members and all public citizens. You can share feedback on this episode by visiting applaudpublicservice.ca.