In this two‑part episode of Path of Public Service, host Katie Jensen presents an expansive portrait of Ontario’s second Poet Laureate, Matthew‑Ray “Testament” Jones, tracing both his personal evolution and his public impact. Together, this conversation explores how creative practice, cultural heritage, and service intersect and move from formative experiences and identity‑building to leadership, recognition, and responsibility. Across classrooms, communities, and performance spaces, Jones demonstrates how poetry operates as a tool for connection, care, and civic contribution. Through this two-part episode, we move from reflection to forward momentum, and close with a spoken‑word performance that anchors a philosophy of service in action, empathy, and collective healing.
In Part One of this episode, host Katie Jensen speaks with Ontario’s second Poet Laureate, Matthew‑Ray “Testament” Jones, a spoken‑word artist, educator, and community leader. Matthew shares how poetry and storytelling became a lifeline through childhood adversity, racism, and a non‑linear educational journey. And he traces his evolution from a young poet and hip‑hop artist to a respected cultural leader, educator, and father. Rooted in Jamaican heritage and Black history, his story emphasizes the power of language, creativity, and lived experience to shape identity, foster resilience, and inspire social change.
Disclaimer:
Any statistics, facts or data references mentioned in this episode have not been independently verified and may not reflect the most accurate, complete, or current data. Please consult reliable sources for up-to-date and authoritative information.
[00:00:00] Katie Jensen: Applaud is proud to showcase the dedication of those who make decisions for the greater good, and strive to leave the world a better place for all Canadians. All personal views expressed by guests and our hosts are their own. Applaud will continue to recognize those in public service. Offer a kaleidoscope of perspectives and operate in good faith to build trust with Applaud members and all public citizens.
[00:00:31] Matthew-Ray Jones: The blank page was a canvas, and I didn't have to be or say anything. It was an adventurous playground that I could just traverse and create and concoct and conjure up all kind of ideas.
[00:00:49] Katie Jensen: I'm Katie Jensen, and this is the Path of Public Service from Applaud. Celebrating people who have spent their lives working in Ontario's public sector. In 2024, spoken word artist, educator, and community builder, Matthew-Ray Jones:
[00:01:04] Matthew-Ray Jones: also known as Testament,
[00:01:06] Katie Jensen: became Ontario's second ever Poet Laureate:
[00:01:09] Matthew-Ray Jones: Very often people are like, “congratulations Testament.” What on earth is a Poet Laureate?” Well, let me tell you, first of all, this position came out in 2019 in memory of Gord Downie from the Tragically Hip, and a lot of people are like, well. Is it a job? No, it's not a job. It's more of a distinction. So, for two years, I represent the whole province of Ontario for literacy, spoken word and poetry specifically, but as well as Arts and Culture. So I'm meant to throw events. I'm also meant to go to different schools and talk about the power of literacy. Talk about maybe some of the voices that people don't know. So I suggest different books that they should have in their collection or areas that they could look to in terms of representation for other people.
[00:01:59] Katie Jensen: He grew up in the GTA:
[00:02:01] Matthew-Ray Jones: I was born in Toronto, lived most of my life in Mississauga, but for about a 10-year window, I lived in Oakville and there wasn't many people that looked like me in my place, you know? So I experienced a lot of prejudice, a lot of racism. A lot of different type of things.
[00:02:17] Katie Jensen: And writing was a way to get it all out.
[00:02:19] Matthew-Ray Jones: For me. It was a way of expressing myself to deal with some of the stress and challenges in my life. I came from a sort of broken home, in and out, back and forth, and as a young person trying to find myself and have that identity, I didn't have that father figure to help guide me. So I made a lot of mistakes, made a lot of poor choices, but then I realized that writing, it was like this salvation for me. It was a safe space where I could express myself, and ever since that point, I never really looked back.
[00:02:48] Katie Jensen: As he got older, he dreamt of winning a Grammy someday.
[00:02:52] Matthew-Ray Jones: I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be a hip-hop MC. Put out my first record in 2002, and my life totally shifted from there. I started doing a lot more live performances, and I realized that what I really, really love is I love being on that stage. I love being a performer, and that's sort of when the professional transition happened. Really, I would say after my first record came out in 2002.
[00:03:16] Katie Jensen: Years went by and a trail of career achievements, followed: albums, performances, work in the community. He co-founded the Artist Collective P.E.A.C.E. People Everywhere Actually Co-existing Equally, which uses the arts to inspire and empower young people, and now his own kids are right there with him.
[00:03:35] Matthew-Ray Jones: I try to bring my children with me everywhere I go, whether that's an album release, or a video party. I try and bring them into my world. So as much as I do spend time sharing stories with them, I also want them to experience it and live it, so that those stories live on based on how they choose to retell it as well. But I absolutely, I make sure they know their heritage and their history in the Jamaican culture. We got a story for everything.
[00:04:01] Katie Jensen: Long before he was Ontario's Poet Laureate, he was just a little kid hiding his poetry book in the basement.
[00:04:08] Matthew-Ray Jones: I first started writing in general when I was around six years old. My mother gave me a diary, so it was just full of a bunch of things that I was going through, you know, people that I like, things I wanted for my birthday, and so on and so forth.
[00:04:23] Matthew-Ray Jones: And then it evolved into a journal where I was just documenting what happened in my day. But I very specifically remember around that 10, 11-year-old point is when I fell in love with poetry and spoken word. Then at that very specific time is when I started my very first poetry book. It was a red Hilroy book.
[00:04:40] Matthew-Ray Jones: I still remember it. I printed my name as neatly as I could on the cover, dated each and every single page. But I didn't think poetry was cool, you know? And nobody around me was really into it. Nobody was talking about it. So I hid it from people. And I hid my poetry book in a very specific place. It was down the stairs, behind the door, in a box, underneath a pile of papers.
[00:05:03] Matthew-Ray Jones: Now, this box actually did not belong to me. It belonged to my aunt who was living with us at the time. So anytime I wanted to write, I would go downstairs, open the door, open the box, lift up the papers, take my poetry book out, write my pieces, and then put it back. But then there was this one day where I went and the box was gone.
[00:05:23] Matthew-Ray Jones: And I was like, okay, you know what? I'm not gonna panic. Lemme go upstairs. I'm gonna talk to my aunt, try and be all casual. So I was like, “Hey auntie, auntie, how you doing? Like you having a good day?” You know, I'm asking all these questions. She's like, “Boy, what do you want?” I'm like, okay. “There was this box downstairs in the basement. Like what happened to the box?” And she's looking at me all weird. She's like, why would you be looking for that box? That box only had my old schoolwork in it and I threw it away.
[00:05:53] Matthew-Ray Jones: Now my heart sunk to the floor because I still remember the pages. You know, sometimes things are visual. I can still remember my pieces. And there's only one piece from that book that stands out my mind, and it goes a little something like this: “One last kiss from my lover. Before I depart from this Earth.” That's all I remember. But I was like 10 years old. I didn't know anything about that. But as I had mentioned, you know, the blank page was a place for me to create, to be whoever I wanted to be.
[00:06:22] Matthew-Ray Jones: And I was devastated after my poetry book got thrown away. But the funny thing is, reflecting on it now, I don't know why I just didn't decide to create a new one. The only thing that I focused on after that poetry book got thrown out was. How much trouble I could give in school. I was a miscreant. I was into all kind of situations, particularly where I was living at that time.
[00:06:45] Matthew-Ray Jones: I was born in Toronto, lived most of my life in Mississauga, but for about a 10-year window, I lived in Oakville. And there wasn't many people that looked like me, in my place, you know? So I experienced a lot of prejudice, a lot of racism, a lot of different type of things. But then my family, in the second half of grade 10, we moved back to Mississauga.
[00:07:05] Matthew-Ray Jones: I had been given some problems in Oakville, so the family's like, we need to change this scenery. And literally, in one month, I got suspended two more times at my new school back in Mississauga, you know, and my mom. In her best Jamaican patois, “Boy, you're gonna mess up your future.” You know, I'm gonna mess up my future with the things that I'm choosing to do and whatnot.
[00:07:26] Matthew-Ray Jones: But then one fateful day, I was sitting in science class, should have been paying attention, but like many of us, I was daydreaming and all of a sudden I was like, you know what? I'm gonna be a hip-hop MC, and then all of a sudden, I took out a sheet of paper and I started writing, and I was just loving what I was writing.
[00:07:46] Matthew-Ray Jones: I'm like, “Ooh, this is that fire, you know?” So I turned to this girl sitting beside me and I'm like, “Hey, you gotta check this out.” Slide it over to her. I'm waiting for her reaction. She's reading it. She's reading it. Then she's like, “Eh, it's all right.” I'm all offended. Like. “Gimme that piece of paper. There's some Juno lyrics right here. This is Grammy award-winning stuff.” But something amazing happened for me on that day. On that day, I realized why I always gravitated to writing and poetry. For me, it was a way of expressing myself to deal with some of the stress and challenges in my life.
[00:08:20] Matthew-Ray Jones: I came from a sort of broken home, in and out, back and forth. And as a young person trying to find myself and have that identity, I didn't have that father figure to help guide me. So, I made a lot of mistakes, made a lot of poor choices, but then I realized that writing was like this salvation for me. It was a safe space where I could express myself. And ever since that point, I never really looked back.
[00:08:41] Matthew-Ray Jones: I look for every opportunity to share my voice. Whether that was presentations at school. My family grew up in a religious community, so there was many opportunities at church, whether t ough the choir, helping out with the kids programs, various different type of presentations. But when I really, really took the next level of transition was actually when I moved out to London, Ontario.
[00:09:03] Matthew-Ray Jones: I attended Fanshawe College for a little while. I was trying to get into the Music Industry Arts Program. So I went out there and I met a bunch of people, learned about the studio life and recording, and some of my first performances in front of people that weren't my immediate community were at like the pub at Fanshawe.
[00:09:24] Matthew-Ray Jones: One of my biggest performances was at Western University in partnership with the African Caribbean Association. They were holding an event and I performed there, and so, people started giving me feedback on my music. Like, “Oh, I really like that.” And I was like, okay. So I did end up getting into the Music Industry Arts Program, but as soon as I got into it, I hated it. And I have to set the context that this is in the early 2000s, so this is before the internet blew up, this is before Facebook. And I would be bucking heads with my professors constantly, right? Like they would sort of teach the course from the perspective that everybody wants a record contract, right?
[00:10:03] Matthew-Ray Jones: And I would be asking questions like, well, what if I record the music by myself? You know, professionally mix and master it. But then I press up some CDs and I sell them out of the trunk of my car and they'd be like, well, you can try that, but not many people get success. And I just constantly felt like, wow, here I am at this post-secondary, supposed to be higher level of education, but my ideas are constantly being put down.
[00:10:28] Matthew-Ray Jones: So I actually, I decided to leave that program and I remember my teeth chattering, my knees knocking, calling my Jamaican mother to let her know that I had no plans on continuing and that I wanted to pursue my music career. But I called her. And one thing I always have to say is that my mom has been always very, very supportive of the things that I do.
[00:10:47] Matthew-Ray Jones: So thinking that I was gonna get some yelling and berating, she just said, “Well, what's your plan?” And I said, “well, you know what? I wanna come back to Mississauga. I'm gonna record this album and I'm gonna jump into my music career.” And she said, “Alright, then well get it done.” And that's exactly what I did.
[00:11:04] Matthew-Ray Jones: I went back to Mississauga, connected with some other people that were making music at that time. Put out my first record in 2002. It was called Higher Heights, an EP with myself and DJ Bawbwa. We put that record out and my life totally shifted from there.
[00:11:23] Matthew-Ray Jones: I started doing a lot more live performances. People would be reaching out to me for different events and stuff like that. Clubs, communities, bars, private events, public events, corporate events, church functions, schools. All sorts of different type of events, and I realized that what I really, really love is: I love being on that stage. I love being a performer, and that's sort of when the professional transition happened, really, I would say after my first record came out in 2002.
[00:11:49] Matthew-Ray Jones: But something super cool is actually about a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, I went back to London. I was there for a week. I actually taught three lectures at Western, and I also joined Western because they recently just became the first university in all of Canada with a Black Studies major. Part of the reason it resonates with me even more is that at P.E.A.C.E, the organization that I also co-founded, our largest program is actually our Black Studies program, which 2026, it's gonna be our 15th year of providing black history education in the community. Yeah, so we promote the idea of Black History 24/7, 365, although February is a very, very busy time for myself and my team, and we love February. I'm born in February. I love Black History Month.
[00:12:39] Matthew-Ray Jones: But what it really is about is how can we continue this narrative? And keep these stories alive year round. So when I heard about this Black Studies major, I was like, oh my goodness, what a great alignment in terms of the work that I have been doing. And it was so cool to join with the colleagues and the professors that spent the last four years putting this together.
[00:12:59] Matthew-Ray Jones: I was so honored to be in that space because. I never thrived in the educational environment and I always let people know that, right? Like I did well in school. School was not difficult for me. Graduated with an A average. I'm one of those students. A lot of people get mad when they say like, I didn't have to study for anything.
[00:13:17] Matthew-Ray Jones: Like I look at a page one time and be like, ah, I know this kind of stuff. You know? I checked out from school mentally at a very, very young age. Most of my education came from the other things I was reading, the things that I was getting into. So to be in a space with all of these academics that have dedicated their life and their work and their expertise to making those sort of streamlined for people in other spaces, man, that's just so exciting to me.
[00:13:40] Matthew-Ray Jones: You know? On one side, you're kind of looking at it like, why did it take so long to get a major? But on the other side, we're like, well, we're so thankful that it's there and I'm really, really honored to be a part of history and that all going down.
[00:13:54] Katie Jensen: When you mentioned P.E.A.C.E, it reminded me that for those who don't know this past September grades 7, 8, and 10 students started formally learning about black history as part of their curriculum. And I'm curious how, If at all how the curriculum with peace has changed, has not changed, what are your strategies around that now that there's more widespread adoption of a history education, at least starting up.
[00:14:20] Matthew-Ray Jones: Yeah, like for me, it's more of just a support thing, right? Teamwork makes the dream work. As we know in the community, it takes layers. So I'm so excited that, you know, schools and the Ministry of Education is now pushing this as something that's mandatory. As I said, this is something that I've actively wanted to know about personally, and for almost 15 years we've been promoting in the community.
[00:14:41] Matthew-Ray Jones: So now we have this support. Right? Before you'd only have certain people that would reach out to you. They want to check a box for February, but now. That it's on the broader scope of education. You have people more bought into it, whether that's by force or by some of the things that they might be interested in.
[00:14:59] Matthew-Ray Jones: I just love the idea that it gives me another opportunity to connect with people in a different way, because as we know, very often marginalized communities, their stories aren't told. You know, and especially when it comes to black history, one thing that always bothered me was is that they always start at slavery.
[00:15:16] Matthew-Ray Jones: Like that's where everything began versus all of these ancient civilizations of Kings and Queens and Dynasties and Monarchies that really have become the blueprint for what we know as society today. So it's a very exciting time. You know, whether we're talking about the shift in black studies education, some of the stuff around indigenous education, I believe that, you know, things like the internet, just the global climate has opened up the conversation to a larger level, and it's exciting for me. I'm invigorated by the opportunity to not only share with people, but there's so much that I learn. I'm a lifelong learner, right? So no matter what space I'm in, whether that's with the youth, ducators, other people that we're partnering with.
[00:16:01] Matthew-Ray Jones: I'm open to any sort of knowledge and you know, being a storyteller myself, I take pieces from different places and put them together. So I always say what a time to be alive. Like I know obviously we could spend time talking about some of the craziness, absolute craziness going on in the world, but when I look at, you know, I'm a very optimistic person. What a great time of opportunity for anything that we are sort of willing to put our best foot forward to and create. So I'm excited about that.
[00:16:31] Katie Jensen: Is there a history of storytelling in your family? Like are your family really good storytellers?
[00:16:37] Matthew-Ray Jones: What I will say is. Both my mother and my father are very well-spoken individuals. Anytime they get up to speak, very eloquent, very confident, something that very much comes naturally for both of them, but more so on my mother's side, she'd always be singing songs. In the Jamaican culture, we got a story for everything, okay. So there's a lot of different stories, but one thing I really saw my mom do often, specifically in the church community, the faith community space, was she often loved to research poets.
[00:17:12] Matthew-Ray Jones: She would share those pieces, and my mom was very animated. She would sort of embody the language of the piece and get very expressive. So those are one of my memories of my mom in terms of, you know, storytelling in that way. So it wasn't so much, you know, stories directly about my family immediately, but some of those stories that have sort of been passed on generationally through poetry, through dance, through song, and some of those mediums, my mom definitely utilized those things.
[00:17:39] Matthew-Ray Jones: But I would say it was kind of just something like she was passionate about. It wasn't like she was intentionally trying to create musicians and poets and stuff like that, which is why, you know, my fascination and love of, you know, black history and stuff like that is powerful because as we know, you know, in Africa specifically, we have the Griots that would sort of pass down tradition orally. And my mom was definitely a great storyteller, but again, it was more. You know, stories that she had heard and so on and so forth, not directly connecting to like our immediate family or whatever the case may be.
[00:18:13] Katie Jensen: Are you doing that now as a father? Are you sharing any of the stories that your mom told as a kid when you were a kid to your kids now?
[00:18:20] Matthew-Ray Jones: Yeah, some of them, and I add like my own variation, I'm from the hip hop generation, which my parents are connected to in a way that they probably don't realize. You know, hip hop was born out of struggle. Right. It comes directly out of the Civil Rights Movement. So whether we're looking at, you know, funk music, soul music, punk music, reggae music, a resistance form of music, Bob Marley, and, you know, a lot of people sort of know the ideology and the philosophy.
[00:18:46] Matthew-Ray Jones: So my parents, living in Jamaica, they know about the forefathers that have created reggae. But even further than that, you know, Jamaica has a history of resistance. Whether you're looking at the Maroons with Nanny of the Maroons, Paul Bogle, Marcus Garvey. All of these things leading up to the creation of reggae and that narrative of Jamaicans being a persevering people, you know, a people that will overcome.
[00:19:12] Matthew-Ray Jones: And I gotta take a moment to, you know, give a shout out to my family in Jamaica. My family is from St. Elizabeth directly in Black River, where Hurricane Melissa has absolutely decimated everything. Like all of my memories, the buildings that I remember, the landmarks that I remember, everything is gone there. And as much as we are, you know, putting together our efforts as a community, sending barrels down, sending the prayers up or whatever people do it is always mind blowing to me how resilient Jamaican people are. Right. We have a saying in Jamaica. We say, you know, “Wi likkle but wi tallawah,” We’re small but we're strong. You know, Bob Marley always used to talk about this idea that it's the small acts that topples the big tree.
[00:19:57] Matthew-Ray Jones: So I look at myself as a continuation of all of those stories in those lineages that have gone for me, not in just the, you know, the direct sense of passing down these stories, but that I can create stories. And now with my children, it has my Jamaican heritage and my influence, but also my upbringing in Canada.
[00:20:17] Matthew-Ray Jones: And then my experience as a Hip Hop artist because in my opinion, Hip Hop is such a powerful force on the face of the earth. And one thing I try to do is I try to bring my children with me everywhere I go, whether that's an album release, uh, video party, you know, a show at former Young and Dundas Square now Sankofa Square.
[00:20:35] Matthew-Ray Jones: I threw an event at the Living Arts Center recently, so I try and bring them into my world. So as much as I do spend time sharing stories with them, I also want them to experience it and live it so that those stories live on. Based on how they choose to retell it as well. But absolutely, I make sure they know their heritage and their history. We very often sit down and have conversations to keep it alive. But again, it's more for me, that lived experience, those actionable items that like, look, this is what dad does, but like, you don't have to be like me, but carry on your story and your legacy in a powerful way, you know?
[00:21:13] Matthew-Ray Jones: One of the things that we do every year is we sort of do our goal setting. Every couple of years we'll do our vision boards and I'll record them talking and setting their intentions and stuff. So mostly when I'm doing activities with them, it's around the power of words and what they can create through language. Right. You know, my children view me very differently, obviously, you know, I'm just Dad to them.
[00:21:33] Matthew-Ray Jones: In the community, my name holds a different weight. People see me in a different way. So very specifically with them, it's more around. “Look what Daddy's creating, but did you know you can create whatever you want. You don't have to do what I'm doing.” And I sort of really emphasize that. I'm big on language with them, you know, so as siblings will do as I did to my younger siblings, you know, you're picking on them, you're saying certain things, but I often talk about the power of words, especially the language that we use with our self.
[00:21:58] Matthew-Ray Jones: You know, they're living in this time where I didn't grow up with social media, so I at least have something to compare it to. But they're living in a time and we know how oppressive the entertainment industry can be, especially when it comes to comparison. So I really try and sell them on the idea just like their fingerprints, that they're unique.
[00:22:16] Matthew-Ray Jones: But they also gotta create and write it down. If you don't declare it, if you don't write it down, if you don't try and manifest it, it doesn't exist, right? So in terms of the activities that we do on a regular basis, those would be some of the things that I sort of try and hammer home. The power of language. Like, you know, never say something, oh, I'm so stupid, even in passing, right? Because the brain takes things as fact. You are what you say you are, and everything is created in language. So I really try and emphasize that with them. But again. Because it isn't a workshop, this isn't a performance. They're going to see Testament.
[00:22:49] Matthew-Ray Jones: I have to sort of be mindful or else they kind of start rolling the eyes like, okay, dad, you told us this before. Like you keep saying the same thing as most parents get. We have to be repetitive because we want the best for them. You know? So one thing I want my children to know is, is that there's not many people you're ever gonna meet in life, that want you to do better than them. And all I wanna do is see, you all outdo me. Everything that I'm doing now, I want you to surpass me. At 3 years old, if you at 17, 18, 19 years old can surpass that, by all means, I'm gonna applaud that. Shout out to Applaud. And make it happen. Because that's what's what it's all about for me.
[00:23:28] Katie Jensen: Writing it down made me think of something I heard last year where someone said that when you get a creative idea or an impulse, if you don't act on it, it's basically the universe offering it to you, and if you don't take it, it will be offered to somebody else. It's a gift that gets taken away.
[00:23:44] Matthew-Ray Jones: Correct. Correct. I've heard it in another way where it says that inspiration is direct instruction. I can't remember where I heard it. Because you know when it comes to a good idea, like for example, you look at somebody like Alexander Graham Bell and the telephone, the telephone idea was always in the ether, and there was other people crafting these ideas, but he was the one that, to your point, took it, ran with it, and made sure that it went to the fullest extent. And I agree. 'cause there's been so many things that I was like, yeah, yo, this would be a cool idea. You wait on it for three or five years, somebody else is gonna do it. Because good ideas are just like that. It's just like, you know, our invisible text messages and radio waves, our brains radiate this information. So they are there for us to pluck them. But absolutely we gotta move when that inspiration hits, especially in this day and age. There's so much information, so many abilities to execute on our ideas. We absolutely gotta move, you know, move with light speed.
[00:24:49] Katie Jensen: that was part one of my conversation with Testament. in part two, we'll hear about how he became Ontario's Poet Laureate:
[00:24:55] Matthew-Ray Jones: One day a friend of mine sent me a LinkedIn posting and he said, Testament, this sounds like you. So through the process, I made a declaration. I said, why not me?
[00:25:07] Katie Jensen: How he practices that, “why not me?” attitude in his daily life in the form of vision boarding:
[00:25:13] Matthew-Ray Jones: I have one right here that I look at all the time.
[00:25:17] Katie Jensen: And the ways he's been able to impact the lives of others:
[00:25:20] Matthew-Ray Jones: Just did a session last week, Friday with about 300 educators, and a person came up to me and they broke down in tears. There's so much going on in the world and we can't look at people and know what they're dealing with.
[00:25:37] Katie Jensen: Thanks for listening. Applaud is proud to showcase the dedication of those who make decisions for the greater good and strive to leave the world a better place for all Canadians. All personal views expressed by guests and our hosts are their own applaud. Applaud will continue to recognize those in public service, offer a kaleidoscope of perspectives, and operate in good faith to build trust with applaud members and all public citizens. You can share feedback on this episode by visiting ApplaudPublicService.ca.